Home Calendar Departments Directory Gallery Documents History

ZBA home About Notices Applications Decisions APA Letters Resources

Zoning Board of Appeals May 17, 2018 Minutes

Members of the Zoning Board of Appeals in attendance by roll call were:

Chairman Kenneth Coirin — here
Douglas Purcell — here
Frank Malagisi — here
Mike Frasier — absent
Kathleen Ellerby — here
Peter Welker — here (recused himself)

Members of the public in attendance: Doug Smith, John Mellen, Lynn Garski

Chairman Kenneth Coirin opened the public hearing at 7:35pm.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: We don't have a full five members. Would you [Peter Welker] like to sit in on this one?

Peter Welker: I leave it up to you. I have received no correspondence.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: You haven't gotten anything, then I don't see why then.

Douglas Purcell: I would like to make a motion to waive the reading of the minutes and accept the minutes as published from the last meeting.

Frank Malagisi: I'll second it.

All were in favor. The motion passed.

Application Number: Z2018-02

Owner: David Falvo PO Box 310 Caroga Lake NY 12032 of the property located at: 135 Green Lake Road and identified as parcel #52.11-2-16 for a Site Plan Review of the Town of Caroga Zoning Ordinance.

Owner Desires to: build an 8’ × 20’ front deck and enlarge the garage. Percentage of ground cover is at issue, Shoreline and side yard setbacks are at issue. As it pertains to Article 4 Section 4.050 and Article 9 Section 9.010 of the Town of Caroga Zoning Ordinance.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: This is a two-part meeting. The first is for the public. The second, we'll close that and go into a board review. We'll take them in order. This is application number Z2018-02 for David Falvo to build an 8 by 20 foot front deck and enlarge the garage. We've already heard what you want to do. I don't believe there's any correspondence. The only correspondence: Falvo, faxed transmitted page emailed to you.

David Falvo: That would be my other neighbor to my left as you are facing the house saying everything looked good. They didn't have a problem.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: And when I was out there, I spoke with a Mr. Sage.

David Falvo: Yes, that is my neighbor to the right.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: And he had no objections either. Yes?

Doug Smith: I am two down from David's. I have no objections.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Very good. No other correspondence. Anybody else wishes to speak? Then, we'll close public portion and go into the board's.

At 7:38pm the public session closed.

Douglas Purcell: I would like to know how are you planning in addressing the stairs issue that they talked about during the Planning Board. You showed them something but I would like to see it.

John Mellen: If this is the driveway, instead of coming off the front, set them inside.

Kathleen Ellerby: So it would be taking them from here [front] and putting them over here [side]?

John Mellen: Yes, exactly.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Setting them inside.

Frank Malagisi: And you guys are going to stay within the same footprint?

John Mellen: Yes.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: You'd stay within the existing encroachment? Besides where just the stairs were, you have a little bit of a platform there too which encroached on the 75 foot.

Frank Malagisi: Are you coming out here?

John Mellen: That platform is right there. About five feet of stairs and about 3 feet of platform.

Frank Malagisi: So about eight feet?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: From what that shows. As long as you stay within where that was. We've already agreed to that.

Doug; The planning board did.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes. And you are agreeable to that here too?

John Mellen: Yes.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK. Are the any other questions?

Douglas Purcell: I will reiterate the concern that was raised during the Planning Board meeting. The simple fact that the property is currently over by a significant percentage on the area coverage and now we're talking about taking it over 20% I think is something to be concerned about.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

David: I don't know the reason behind those numbers, or what it does, but my lot just happens to be really short, compared to my neighbors, like it doesn't go back 120 or 150 feet. They may go back 175 or 200. I think if I went farther back with those normal lot lines, it wouldn't be a problem with that percentage.

Douglas Purcell: Well, basically coverage issues are so that you don't end up with a whole bunch of land being covered by structures. Somebody who has got more property can put on a much bigger structure. There's no doubt about it. Also, when it reaches a point, where, because of the lot size, you've got no room to move.

David: Yes. It's tight there.

Frank Malagisi: There's that home-made trailer? Is that, what do they call it? A tiny home?

David Falvo: Yes. That's my neighbor's.

Frank Malagisi: That's your neighbors. You have a raised bed septic?

David: Yes.

Frank Malagisi: If we're going to talk about one item at a time, we'll go with the garage structure?

General board consent.

Frank Malagisi: You're approximately 5 feet from the garage/shed to your raised bed: that's a short distance. On the other side, you are about 7 feet away from the house. If you make it any bigger: I don't see how you can.

John Mellen: We're not going that much bigger.

Frank Malagisi: Right now, you have a shed roof and if you gable that, that's going to be at a steeper pitch, and that snow coming off the right side is probably going to hit your house.

David Falvo: Right now everything is pitched towards the house.

Frank Malagisi: On that one side, but it is a smaller pitch than what you are going to have. Now, you are going to a gabled roof instead of a shed roof. Even though you are going to get half the snow, your pitch is going to be that much bigger. So, you are only 7 feet away now. I think you are going to have a problem. Matter of fact, I know you are going to have a problem. And then the rocks. You've got tons of rocks in the back there. Matter of fact you are using one rock [speaker was interrupted].

David Falvo: We want to remove those.

Frank Malagisi: I don't know if you are going to be able to remove them when you see what size they are. My point is: I have a problem with the way that it sets.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: The pitch of the roof?

Frank Malagisi: The pitch of the roof is going to increase. The amount of snow that is going to come off. The quicker pace. They are only seven feet on that side.

John Mellen: My problem with what you are saying: You are saying the snow is going to come off. It is going to be an asphalt roof. It's not a metal roof.

Frank Malagisi: You're not going to have metal?

John Mellen: It's currently a metal roof. It all slides out. With the pitch we have in the front now, the new one, or the other pitch on the back of the house, nothing slides off.

Frank Malagisi: And then its only five feet away from the raised bed. I know it's not living space, but how close do you really want to get there? What's the purpose of increasing the footage of your garage? Are you trying to get a vehicle in there?

David Falvo: No, just trying to get a boat for storage in the winter.

Frank Malagisi: Because your septic tank sits right out in the front. You don't want to really drive over it.

David: It slide a boat in. It is pretty small. 360 square foot total. I've got a snowblower, generator, lawnmower, and a motorcycle and some shelves. And that's kind of filled right now. Whatever little extra we measured: is the most we can get is a foot and a half on this side.

Frank Malagisi: I took pictures and I'll show them to you guys. Here's the one side. That's at the beginning of the raised bed. That's approximately five feet. Here between the house and the place is approximately seven feet. There's a large rock here and there's' a large rock here. How many feet did you want to go?

John Mellen: Nothing on that side. That back corner is not moving.

Douglas Purcell: What he's in essence saying is this corner [closest to the property line] stays where it is. He's going towards the back of the property that way and he's going towards the septic that way.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: This line here is going to stay?

Douglas Purcell: Correct.

Frank Malagisi: You want to go to the front?

General consensus.

Frank Malagisi: I guess my concern is that rock. You're not moving that rock. And it does set up high enough where it's going to interfere with whatever you are doing.

David Falvo: It isn't. We addressed that by pining it.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: When I was looking at it. What size joists are you going to use?

John Mellen: 2 by 8.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: I figured you'd have to take at least an inch and a half, maybe two. That would leave you five and a half on that one section.

Frank Malagisi: Another reason that I have a concern is not only do we have the setback from water but you also have a setback from the town. It's 25 feet, but it is half of that. If your road is twelve feet wide. You take the halfway mark, six feet. Now you have to come back 19 feet. From the edge of the road to the structure it is 34 feet. You can't obstruct any further.

David Falvo: We're not going any further.

Frank Malagisi: You're not going past the platform?

David Falvo: No.

Frank Malagisi: And the steps are going to be built in?

David Falvo: Nothing is coming more forward. If you look at the other houses, everything is still farther back than the other houses.

Frank Malagisi: That structure is also nonconforming. I don't have any other questions.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: That's it. Kathleen?

Kathleen Ellerby: I'm good.

Douglas Purcell: Covered my main concerns.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: The Zoning Board of Appeals, in the granting of an area variance, shall grant the minimum variance that it shall deem necessary and adequate and at the same time preserve and protect the character of the neighborhood and health, safety, and welfare of the community. The first is whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this variance.

All board members said no.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Secondly, whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some other methods feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance.

All board members said no.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Thirdly, whether the requested area variance is substantial.

Douglas Purcell: My opinion is yes. If you look at in terms of setbacks. I don't know at what point you would consider coming into a setback significant, but if you were taking 50% to 75% of a setback, that's probably significant. We're 100% over on the coverage at this point.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right.

Douglas Purcell: So, in my mind that makes it substantial variance.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: I would agree.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fourthly, whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.

All board members said no.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fifthly, whether the alleged difficulty was self-created, which consideration shall be relevant to the decision of the board of appeals, but shall not necessarily preclude the granting of the area variance.

All board members replied and agreed no.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Now, I’ll entertain a motion.

Peter Welker: Everyone voted yes.

Douglas Purcell: Well, that doesn't necessarily negate the granting of an area variance.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Whether it is substantial or not, we can say yes and still grant it.

Douglas Purcell: Correct.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Motion?

Douglas Purcell: I am going to make a motion to deny the variance application Z2018-02.

Frank Malagisi: I'll second it.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: A yes vote denies the application. A no vote approves it.

Roll call vote:

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: No

Douglas Purcell: Yes

Frank Malagisi: Yes

Kathleen Ellerby: No

No decision

The application was tabled.

Douglas Purcell: So, we have no decision.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right.

Douglas Purcell: We do have a fifth member that is not present. Do you want to explain it?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: He never got this package, unfortunately. Should have. He didn't.

Douglas Purcell: We do have another meeting scheduled next Thursday. We could revisit this and hope that we have the whole board present or try to get the packet to Peter Welker, since he's heard the discussion, and give him a chance to evaluate the materials. We'll have to check with Linda Gilbert.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes, Linda Gilbert would know.

Frank Malagisi: You are right. We'll check with Linda. Linda Gilbert would advise us on what time-frames we have.

Douglas Purcell: Essentially, we haven't really closed this one. We've tabled it.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: We looked at as a whole. The whole application either passed, or failed, or in this case, was tabled. So, we'll check with Linda Gilbert and see what's up.

Frank Malagisi: Do we have to make a motion to table it?

Douglas Purcell: The simple fact that we ended up with a tie vote and couldn't reach a conclusion tables it automatically.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right

Application Number #Z2018-03

Owner: Lynn Garski 3474 Woodlands Circle Macedon, NY 14502 of the property located at: 621 S. Shore Road East Caroga Lake NY 12032 and identified as parcel # 83.13-7-5 for a variance to the Town of Caroga Zoning Ordinance which is in violation of Article 4 Section 4.050 & 4.010 of said code.

Owner Desires to: build a front and rear deck. Front yard and lot coverage are at issue.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Lynn Garski?

Peter Welker: I have been invited to this hearing, however I have a conflict and I request to be recused.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Granted. Would you just give us an an overview of what you'd like to do.

Lynn Garski: I came in and met with Mr. Duesler and filled out an application for a deck permit. He and I reviewed my plan. He was saying that the total square footage of structures should be 10% of the total lot square footage. When you go to put the decks up — I'm asking to put up a front deck and a back deck. One was 20x6, the front deck would be 19 by 12. John Duesler said that the square footage would be going over only by a little bit because the square footage would be over by 399 square foot. That's my request.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: There's no correspondence on this. Is there anybody who would like to speak to it? In which case, we'll close the public portion of the meeting.

The public portion closed at 7:59pm.

Douglas Purcell: In addition to the square foot issue, there's also the issue of the setback from the road, just as we were discussing in the prior application. In the denial notice: The third paragraph starts out by saying “the proposed deck front is entirely within the front yard setback”. The setback is 25 feet and basically the front of your structure right now is at 25 feet so the 12 feet of the deck will be in the setback as area well.

Lynn: Yes. I don't know why but we got a permit to put the place there.

Douglas Purcell: The original permit application actually says that you were going to set it back between 32 feet and 38 feet from the road. Because, I live near by, I remember it came across the road. There was nothing in the application that indicated that you were going to put a deck there.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: No, I didn't see anything either.

Douglas Purcell: And, when I look at — and I realize what I've got in the original application is a hand drawing — and the permit application for the septic system is a detail drawing which indicates the 25 foot building setback and actually shows there would have been room to put a deck if the proposed house had been put 33 to 38 feet back.

Lynn: Yes, I don't know. There's quite a few houses a lot closer to the road.

Douglas Purcell: Yes, that's very true. There's one that's diagonally across the road from you that we last year approved an application to have it moved it back from the road so that it doesn't continually dump its snow into the road as it slides off. And I'm looking forward to them doing that project.

Lynn: so can you approve this?

Douglas Purcell: We're discussing it. The purpose of the deck in the back: Why do you need a deck in the front and in the back?

Lynn: Just a small porch so when you come up the stairs you can carry stuff in, put the groceries down, whatever.

Douglas Purcell: Well, that could be accomplished by just putting something 6 by 6, maybe, so that you could open the door and have it covered. Actually, the addition on the back extends three feet over the steps.

Lynn: We don't need a cover. We're not putting a roof on it.

Doug; Then, again, I'm not really understanding what the purpose of the back deck is.

Lynn: It would just look better.

Kathleen Ellerby: I measured six foot from the back coming out and it is going to cover like the edge of the well cover.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: It's very close.

Douglas Purcell: Yes.

Frank Malagisi: That's a clean-out, not a well cover.

Douglas Purcell: It looked like a well head to me and I looked it up and it is a clean-out.

Frank Malagisi: Your garage? What are you planning to do with that?

Lynn: It is going to need to be rebuilt. It is very old. It is falling down.

Frank Malagisi: Because on 12/19/2011, application for a building permit: construction of a 14 by 20 addition meets the setback as per attached drawings. And in there it says: existing garage to be removed upon completion of the addition rough framing. That was 2011.

Lynn: I don't know anything about that.

Frank Malagisi: That was 2011. It's not down yet. It is 2018.

Lynn: I'm just asking. Was there a permit to take it down.

Frank Malagisi: Here's the permit. 2011. Permit Number 2011184 dated 12 19 2011.

Lynn: So you don't need another permit to take it down?

Frank Malagisi: No, it should be down.

Lynn: OK. I'll have to ask about it. I don't know.

Frank Malagisi: And here, this is a portion of a copy of your septic plans: “existing garage to be removed”. You guys want to?

Douglas Purcell: I've already been and looked and have the same schematic.

Frank Malagisi: If you flip one page back, you'll see the building permit.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK

Douglas Purcell: I've covered my concerns.

Frank Malagisi: I've covered my concerns. I think the square footage would be different if the garage wasn't there.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes, that would make quite a bit of difference. That would take care of the square footage requirement.

Douglas Purcell: Is there anyway to convert the front room to deck/porch?

Lynn: No.

Doug; The room is currently used for?

Lynn: The living room.

Douglas Purcell: And, you need 12 feet on the front deck to accomplish? Could you make it smaller?

Lynn: Could. I think that deck board come twelve feet. A little more space.

Frank Malagisi: Would you consider an 8 foot deck?

Kathleen Ellerby: Six. Because that 12 foot and my concern it's winter time and the snow. It's on that corner.

Lynn: Yes, the town always dumps snow on that corner.

Frank Malagisi: That's the whole of being set back.

Simultaneous general consensus on that point.

Frank Malagisi: I just don't want to see the town be liable.

Douglas Purcell: Right. Do you want to go through the criteria and see where we end up.

Frank Malagisi: No.

Douglas Purcell: No

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: I don't think so.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Secondly, whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some other methods feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance.

Frank Malagisi: If the garage comes done.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: And the deck is reduced.

Douglas Purcell: So I would say that there are other alternatives that should be considered.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right

All board members agreed yes.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Thirdly, whether the requested area variance is substantial.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

Douglas Purcell: Yes

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fourthly, whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.

All board members said no.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: In this case it is.

All board members replied and agreed yes.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: I’ll entertain a motion on this.

Douglas Purcell: Motion to deny application Z018-03.

Kathleen Ellerby: I'll second it.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: A yes vote denies the application, a no vote approves it.

Roll call vote:

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes

Douglas Purcell: Yes

Kathleen Ellerby: Yes

Frank Malagisi: Yes.

The application has been denied.

Motion: Douglas Purcell moved adjourn. Frank Malagisi seconded the motion. All board members said aye. The meeting adjourned at 8:13pm.

Respectfully submitted
James McMartin Long
Town of Caroga Deputy Supervisor,
acting as Zoning Board of Appeals Secretary