Zoning Board of Appeals June 12, 2018 Minutes

Members of the Zoning Board of Appeals in attendance by roll call were:

Chairman Kenneth Coirin — here
Douglas Purcell — here
Frank Malagisi — here
Mike Frasier — here (was absent for prior Falvo hearings)
Kathleen Ellerby — here

Members of the public in attendance: applicant David Falvo, ZBA alternate D Peter Welker (who served previously on the Falvo application)

Chairman Kenneth Coirin opened the public hearing at 7:00pm.

Application Number: Z2018-02

Owner: David Falvo PO Box 310 Caroga Lake NY 12032 of the property located at: 135 Green Lake Road and identified as parcel #52.11-2-16 for a Site Plan Review of the Town of Caroga Zoning Ordinance.

Owner Desires to: build an 8’ × 20’ front deck and enlarge the garage. Percentage of ground cover is at issue, Shoreline and side yard setbacks are at issue. As it pertains to Article 4 Section 4.050 and Article 9 Section 9.010 of the Town of Caroga Zoning Ordinance.

Douglas Purcell: Before you go any further, I’d like to make a motion to accept the minutes of the last two meetings as published.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: I’ll second that. All those in favor.

All members said aye. The motion passed.

Frank Malagisi: Can we review the whole case?

Douglas Purcell: We’re going to need to.

Frank Malagisi: Because Mike [Frasier] wasn’t here.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: We’re going have David [Falvo] make a little presentation and go into the whole thing.

Mike Frasier: The ones on the email? They were on the email, right?

Douglas Purcell: Yes. But, we ought to have this discussion.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

David Falvo: I don’t know if you got that copy of the latest drawing. It’s kind of more up to date with the stairs.

David Falvo submitted drawings to the board members.

David Falvo: And that kind of sums up everything. So, there was a the existing garage — it shows in the back — and we’re looking to expand that to 18 [foot] by 20 [foot]. So, that would increase the square footage and the proposed deck. Now, you can see the stairs going out towards the driveway. And, I have the setbacks from the high water mark and also from the center of the road going back to where the deck would be on this drawing.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right. OK.

David Falvo: If I’m not mistaken, the setback on the road was 25 feet?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

David Falvo: So, at 30 feet 2 inches is the closest I am to the road. So, I’m hoping that’s not an issue. And, the setback from the high water mark I think is 75 feet and the closest I am is 71 feet 10 inches, but that’s with the existing encroachment which we talked about.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right

David Falvo: The existing encroachment is the stairs and platform that was already there.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK

Mike Frasier: And the existing is not changing, though, right? I mean, to where you wanted to put the new to where the old was is still the same line, right?

David Falvo: Yes.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Before we go any further, was there any correspondence on this?

There was no correspondence.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: No correspondence. OK. We’ll close the public portion and go into the board’s.

Closed the public portion at 7:03 pm.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Any questions anybody has?

Mike Frasier: I went and I looked at it. I measured and all that. I mean this just clears up straight lines. Like the deck going across — I didn’t really see — because of the rock. I mean, you are going over the rock anyway. You can’t do anything with the rock. If you are going to go over it, you are going to go over it. So, I only thought the front — that little section of grass was really what I see in my eyes being added on. Because you are never going to do anything with the rock anyway. So, and the garage is not really blocking anything and nobody is ever going to do anything behind it. So, I didn’t see — I was like: OK.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK. That’s where you are.

Frank Malagisi: What is the size of the shed right now?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Let’s see. We had that someplace.

Douglas Purcell: 296 square feet

Frank Malagisi: Because I went and I made measurements when we first started and I made measurements today. I came up with about 14.5 feet wide by 18.5 feet long. So, with the sheathing, the backer board, and the siding, that’s where you are going to get your half a foot on both ends. Basically, I’m looking at 14 [foot] by 18 [foot] and you want to extend it 18 [foot] by 20 [foot].

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Correct.

Frank Malagisi: I know we talked about a survey. I went up there today. I looked at the survey marks. That side is marked by Ferguson & Foss [Professional Land Surveyors]. There is a survey that does exist somewhere.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: In the septic application.

Frank Malagisi: But, the septic application isn’t by scale. I did measure the sides for the raised bed and we have about five feet [clearance] and we have about seven feet to the house.

David Falvo: We’re not going toward the house. I’m just going towards the raised bed a couple feet.

Frank Malagisi: If you looked the proposal for the septic, it puts the shed almost right on the line. If we were going to offer any relief to the project as a whole, I could see doing the deck and the front, provided that he had put his steps into the deck — which he has agreed to do.

David Falvo: That’s on the plan.

Frank Malagisi: So, I don’t know how we want to address either the project as a whole or we could separate it from the shed or the deck.

David Falvo: I remember from the first meeting you said we couldn’t separate it: it was one.

Douglas Purcell: Well, we can make approvals with stipulations to changes that you would need to agree to.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right.

Douglas Purcell: But, before we go that far, you’ve [Frank Malagisi] got problems problems with that garage. I have a bigger issue.

Frank Malagisi: OK.

Douglas Purcell: As I stated in the first meeting, this project is basically bringing his coverage to 20 percent. That’s 100 percent over...

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Over.

Douglas Purcell: ...the allowable percentage. One of the things that this board needs to keep in mind — that the decisions we render become...

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: We’re setting precedents.

Douglas Purcell: We’re setting a precedent. And, right now we have not had a bar raised to 20 percent [coverage]. We have had many come before us for coverage where we have had the applicant reduce the coverage in an effort to try and keep it down. I went back through records for all the years that I have been involved and I have never seen one been approved at 20 percent. Mr. Falvo’s argument that he’s got an exceptional case because his lot is so small, in my mind is the justification that the zoning ordinance has in setting those percentages. Because there are many lots that are less than what the zoning ordinance allows. If we allow 20 percent here, what’s to keep his neighbor from coming to us and asking for another 20 or 10 percent, and his neighbor coming. And all of a sudden you end up with a whole lot of developed land and no green space.

Frank Malagisi: I agree on your assessment with the 20 percent. But if we were to, say, for instance, the shed could be rebuilt within the same footprint, OK, giving the burden or the responsibility of the property owner to make sure that it stays within his property lines. I mean, somewhere along the line there’s going to be needed, and I think there is, an existing survey somewhere. And what would be the percentage? Because the porch, if you measure it now, what he had was approximately 4 feet wide by about 10 feet long, so there was 40 square feet there. We’re looking at allowing him to build to the 8 foot distance, which is another 4 by 20, so there’s 80 square, and another 4 by 10 which is 40 square. So we’re looking at 120 square feet. I don’t know what that percentage would be.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: I don’t either.

David Falvo: The bulk of it is, that’s the bulk of it, with the garage.

Douglas Purcell: 64 square feet difference.

Frank Malagisi: How many square feet?

Douglas Purcell: 64.

Frank Malagisi: Total?

Douglas Purcell: The delta, the change from the existing to the proposed, is 64 square feet.

Frank Malagisi: OK.

Douglas Purcell: So, it’s the smaller part of it. The revised deck is 168 square feet, at 8.5 inches by 20 feet. And part of the issue is that he is already so far over with the existing property at 1020 square feet versus 576 allowed.

Frank Malagisi: Right. We’re going to have to come up with some form of relief, because he has that front entrance that needs to be addressed. I mean, he can’t just jump out on rock. That’s why, in my eyes, I would rather focus on the deck than the shed. I mean, the shed is an “I want”. The decking is an “I need” in order to come in and out of that front entrance.

Douglas Purcell: In theory, he should be able to rebuild the steps to the existing footprint and not require anything. That may not be what he wants. But, in theory, he should be able to do that.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

Douglas Purcell: And I realize that that’s not much of a solution for you.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right.

Frank Malagisi: Would it be acceptable if we cut it back to, say, 6 by 20?

David Falvo: I’d like to look at the whole of what I’m presenting right now, as is, and get a vote on that. If I have to come back around, it might be acceptable later to look at it again.

Douglas Purcell: Well, we certainly have enough people here to render a decision.

Frank Malagisi: Yes, we do. The thing is, with the shed, there’s a lot of stuff going on there. And it’s such in a tight spot.

David Falvo: That’s why I went just a little bit bigger. If I had more room, I would do it bigger, as I said that’s all I could really put there in the mix with good and not out of place.

Frank Malagisi: No, no. Everything that has been done to the property is beautiful. You’re doing a great job. But, it’s what he said. It’s the percentages.

David Falvo: Yes. I understand that.

Frank Malagisi: That’s where our struggle is.

David Falvo: Yes.

Douglas Purcell: We’ve heard from Frank. We’ve heard from me. We’ve heard from Mike. Kathleen [Ellerby], did you have anything that you wanted to add?

Kathleen Ellerby: That whole shed thing confuses me. Everything’s different. Here it’s right on the corner.

Frank Malagisi: Well, this [drawing] isn’t by scale. Neither of them are. This is done by Charles Ackerbauer, and the survey markers that are present are done by Ferguson and Foss. So, unless you get something by scale, it’s not going to show the exact, but it’s close to the line. That I can tell you.

David Falvo: I talked to John [Duesler], the code enforcement officer, and he said that before anything’s done, he’s got to go out and measure it and make sure we’re not encroaching on the neighbor’s lot line. We’re going to stay on that line. Just to go out there and measure with the existing line and make sure we’re not going out there out that direction. And I have no intention to.

Frank Malagisi: Well, we all have problems with the total project as a whole. Right?

Mike Frasier: The rock up front. I’m not really counting that as [speaker was interrupted]

Frank Malagisi: The rock he has to deal with. He knows what he’s dealing with. If he can build on the rock, build on the rock.

Mike Frasier: As far as the grass part in front, I just don’t see the...

Douglas Purcell: You’re looking at it in terms coverage over green space?

Mike Frasier: Right. Right.

Douglas Purcell: I’m looking at it as coverage over the lot.

Mike Frasier: Right. And then, as far as that, I saw it as a good improvement to the property with something new the back instead of the shed, because of the snow load coming down into his house. And going a little bit bigger.

Frank Malagisi: You’re 5 feet away from the raised bed. You’re 7 feet away from the house. How much closer can it be? And he’s close to the line.

Mike Frasier: Right.

Frank Malagisi: So, I would agree to stick to the preexisting structure as it is if he were to rebuild.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: The 18 [foot] 6 [inches]?

Frank Malagisi: No. That’s 14 [foot] by 18 [foot].

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: by 16 [foot].

David Falvo: It’s wavy.

Frank Malagisi: You’re talking inches. He’s saying the shed is 16 feet. I have it at 14 [foot] 5 [inches].

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK.

Frank Malagisi: He’s saying 18 [foot] 6 [inches] long, and I can agree with that.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK. You have it at 14 feet wide, not 16 [foot]?

Frank Malagisi: Right. He wants to expand from — he’s saying he wants to go up to 20 feet.

David Falvo: 18 [feet]

Frank Malagisi: 18 [feet]. You’re looking at 4 feet more.

David Falvo: It’s not square now.

Mike Frasier: Because the concrete actually went out further than the shed on both sides on the bottom. I don’t think it was a foot but it was more than...

Frank Malagisi: And then he has the septic. According to the septic plans, his extra tank and the pump chamber is like right in front of it.

Mike Frasier: I saw that.

David Falvo: Yup, we’re only going a foot and a half that way, because really to me because it’s the door. When I open my door, I don’t want to walk into my shed. I want the shed to be over to the side — just aesthetically, functionality — it wouldn’t make sense.

Frank Malagisi: So I see it’s cramped as it is. And we’re trying to expand it even more. I could see more of a relief factor to the front entrance than the shed. But I’m only one opinion.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: You can see what?

Frank Malagisi: I would rather give him the square footage to the front entrance...

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK.

Frank Malagisi: than the shed. I see the shed as an “I want” and I see the front entrance as an “I need.”

Douglas Purcell: But at this point, Mr. Falvo has indicated no desire to have us consider anything other than this application, if I’m understanding you correctly?

David Falvo: I don’t know how it works. I would if I got a “No” on that — I want to go to that first, then I would take the next step. I would certainly be reasonable in whatever the board wanted to do, but I don’t want to loose that if I have the — I don’t know how it works. I just — I would rather have everyone take a look at it as a whole. Then, if we take the next step, then if I would do the next step with you certainly, I would want to.

Mike Frasier: It looks like we have to shrink that back a little bit.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes, I think so.

Mike Frasier: I think that’s the general consensus.

Frank Malagisi: I agree with Mr. Purcell saying that the percentages: we have never reached that high.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Me too.

Mike Frasier: Right.

Frank Malagisi: But, there is a relief factor that’s needed for the front entrance.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: For the front, yes. There is.

David Falvo: We were originally told that this is the way you wanted to do it. To put it all together. I was originally going to put out the shed for later, and we were told, “No. If you’re going to do it, do it all together.” That’s why we had the meeting the first time.

Douglas Purcell: Well, the other board needed to rule on the encroachment, and on the fact that you were changing from an existing non-conforming structure and moving outside the footprint. That’s why they needed to.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: That was the Planning Board. They wanted to do the whole thing.

Frank Malagisi: I’m just trying to give an alternative.

Mike Frasier: So what are you thinking for the shed? Going to a what?

Frank Malagisi: I’m thinking that the shed stays at the same footprint that it’s in, and the burden or responsibility of the property owner is going to be needed to stay within his property lines. He has to make sure that it stays within his property lines.

David Falvo: Like I said, I did talk with John [Duesler] and he would verify the measurements.

Mike Frasier: I can agree with that.

Frank Malagisi: I’m saying keep the shed the way it is. I mean, he can do whatever roof line he wants to do.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: The footprint, yes.

Frank Malagisi: But as far as 14 [foot] by 18 [foot], that’s what the size is. It should stay within that footprint.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Alright.

Douglas Purcell: At what percent do you think he should be shooting for, then? Because, at 20 percent without any increase to the shed, he has 132 square feet to play with to reach 20 percent [lot coverage]. His current proposal just for the deck is 168 [square foot], so he would have to come down 36 square feet, basically be 6 [foot] by 6 [foot].

David Falvo: It would be the one — or what you said, minus the 40 for the existing wouldn’t it?

Douglas Purcell: OK.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

David Falvo: So, how would that mathematically work?

Douglas Purcell: About 172, which is pretty close to what you’ve currently got there.

David Falvo: How would it be 172?

Douglas Purcell: 132 plus the 40. If the 1020 is what you currently have, minus 40 because you took the steps out. Right?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Right.

Douglas Purcell: I was saying, so I’m giving you the 40 square feet for the steps, plus the 132 that you would have had room to get to 1152, which is 20 percent of the coverage of that lot. I still have a problem with the 20 percent, to tell you the truth.

Frank Malagisi: What if the overall project in the front is 6 by 20? That would be 120 square feet? What do we get then?

Douglas Purcell: So we would add 80 to 1020 which is 1100. Probably, somewhere in the neighborhood of 19 percent. And I did that one as a quick estimate. I didn’t use a calculator. Which is pretty high.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: It is.

Douglas Purcell: And, again, the issue is really that the existing is so high to begin with.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

David Falvo: So, if I just did the deck it would add 128 square feet? Is that what you came up with.

Douglas Purcell: That’s what I came up with. Yes.

David Falvo: And that, to figure out a percentage of that? Am I dividing that? Wasn’t it 5775 or something?

Douglas Purcell: I’m using 576, but I think that’s where they must be getting 5775.

David Falvo: That’s the 20 percent you are getting?

Douglas Purcell: Again, the shed was only 64 square foot, so it’s another percent. It was about 21.

David Falvo: So, it’s only a percent, that’s kind of why I wanted to lump it in there. If it didn’t change, then it wouldn’t change your opinion overall? But if I’m going either 20 or 21, then we’re not talking a lot.

Frank Malagisi: Well, from the overall picture, he has a problem.

Douglas Purcell: And I don’t know if I’ve convinced everyone else on the board of my concern. And short of making a resolution or agreeing to some adjustment, there’s only one way to find out.

Frank Malagisi: This is true.

Mike Frasier: And I compared it. I look a long drive down the road twice. I compared other properties to it, and I still see even with being that far over coverage. I don’t think anything else is going to be allowed on that lot ever again. You know what I mean? So, I look at it that way. And I look at the other lots that did it way before they did anything legal. And I know we’re protected, but I see what else is going on up there. And I’m like, “Wow”.

Frank Malagisi: I get it. I get it. But you don’t know how big each individual lot is. I mean, you didn’t take the tax map and figure out the square footage for each property.

Douglas Purcell: Right.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: No.

Frank Malagisi: We’re just going by looking at a visual and saying OK, this one’s closer, that one is further, but each lot is individual and special to its own self.

Mike Frasier: I’ve seen some of those lines back in there, and they just crest right along the back all the way through there, because the mountain comes down to there. Because I’ve seen Peck’s, A. J. Peck’s lot. He showed me his. Because I said, “Dude. How can you have that? How did you build this?” And he showed me. He showed me. And I looked at that whole back where these houses start of this side of the lake. And, that’s why I took the ride. That’s why I went up more than once to look at this. And I was like, “Son of a bitch!”

Frank Malagisi: OK. So, here’s my resolution.

Douglas Purcell: Well, do we want to go through the criteria?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes. Let’s go through the criteria first.

Frank Malagisi: OK.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: The Zoning Board of Appeals, in the granting of an area variance, shall grant the minimum variance that it shall deem necessary and adequate and at the same time preserve and protect the character of the neighborhood and health, safety, and welfare of the community. There are five criteria. The first is whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this variance.

Board members said, “No.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Secondly, whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some other method feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance.

Board members said, “No.”

Douglas Purcell: He’s going to need an area variance no matter what he does.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Thirdly, whether the requested area variance is substantial.

Douglas Purcell: Yes.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes, it is.

All board members said, “Yes.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fourthly, whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.

All board members said, “No.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fifthly, whether the alleged difficulty was self-created, which consideration shall be relevant to the decision of the board of appeals, but shall not necessarily preclude the granting of the area variance.

All board members said, “No.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK, go for it.

Frank Malagisi: I make the motion that we say that the shed stays the same footprint that it is now, 14 [foot] by 18 [foot] 6 [inches], putting the burden or the responsibility on the property owner to make sure that if he does rebuild that shed that it stays within the property lines. It’s his responsibility to make sure that happens. And then, as far as the front goes, it’s 6 feet wide by 20 feet long.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: That’s what you’re proposing.

Douglas Purcell: That’s what you’re proposing? So you’re reducing it by another 5 inches from what’s on the drawing?

Frank Malagisi: 6 feet wide.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: It’s 2 feet.

Douglas Purcell: It’s actually right. It’s 2 feet 5 inches back.

Frank Malagisi: He’s asking for 8.

Douglas Purcell: Right. 8 feet 5 inches.

David Falvo: That’s the existing encroachment.

Frank Malagisi: We’re going to build the steps inside the 6 feet, and it’s going to go 6 feet wide by 20 feet long.

David Falvo: But if I did that and I open my door, it will be right on the stairs there. It’s not going to be that much room when I step out.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: It will be close.

Douglas Purcell: I’ll second it, so we can vote on it.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Any further discussion?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: A yes vote grants the proposal. A no vote denies it. Will the secretary call the roll?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes.

Douglas Purcell: I’m going to vote no for two reasons. Number one, I still think that the coverage is too great. Number two, I’m not really sure that Mr. Falvo agrees with the proposal.

Frank Malagisi: Yes

Kathleen Ellerby: Yes

Mike Frasier: Yes

The motion passed.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: OK. That’s what we can grant you.

David Falvo: OK. So, is there a no vote on the initial thing? Can we do that? I’m not trying to roll the dice here. I’m just asking.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: No. That’s what we have approved.

Frank Malagisi: This still has to go in front of the APA.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Excuse me?

Frank Malagisi: This still has to go in front of the APA.

David Falvo: Yes. I talked to the APA.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes. It does.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: All right I think we are done.

Frank Malagisi: I make a motion to adjourn.

Douglas Purcell: I’ll second that. All those in favor?

All said Aye.

The meeting adjourned at 7:27pm.

Respectfully submitted
James McMartin Long
Town of Caroga Deputy Supervisor,
acting as Zoning Board of Appeals Secretary

Copyright © James McMartin Long 2017–2024