Zoning Board of Appeals July 12, 2018 Minutes

Members of the Zoning Board of Appeals in attendance by roll call were:

Chairman Kenneth Coirin — here
Douglas Purcell — here
Mike Frasier — absent
Frank Malagisi — here
D Peter Welker — here
Kathleen Ellerby — here

Members of the public in attendance: applicants John Pawlows, Lisa Dolen, and David Dolen.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin opened the public hearing at 7:00pm.

Douglas Purcell moved to waive the reading of the minutes from both the May 24 and June 12 meetings and, unless anybody has any corrections, that they be accepted as they are currently published on TownOfCaroga.com. Kathleen Ellerby seconded the motion. All said aye. The motion passed.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: This is a meeting of the Zoning Board of Appeals. We have two appeals presented before us this evening. We’ll take them in the order they were received. This is a two-part meeting. The first is open to the public. Then, we’ll close that and go into a closed session for the board.

Z2018-05 owner John Pawlows of PO Box 679 Caroga Lake NY 12032, of the property located at: 268 Kasson Drive and identified as parcel # 52.20-3-16 for a variance to the Town of Caroga Zoning Ordinance which is in violation of Article 4 Section 4.050 established by Section 4.010 of this ordinance.

Owner desires to: build a 7 foot × 22 foot addition to the rear of a preexisting non-conforming structure. The allowed 10 percent square feet is 400 square feet. A variance of 980 square feet is being requested. All setbacks are met.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: If you would give us a fast overview of what you want to accomplish.

John Pawlows: We sold our main house in Columbia County and made Kasson drive our permanent residence. And, moving one home into another. We had a small closet in the bedroom and that was great in the summer and now it’s not. We just want to add a closet 7 foot by 22 [foot]. The home is 30 feet long, so I’m going to come in four feet on each side. This is going to be directly in back.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Is there any correspondence on this?

The secretary read correspondence from Miriam H. Ackley, 270 Kasson Dr, Caroga Lake, NY, dated July 5, 2018.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Anybody else wishes to speak to this?

Douglas Purcell: When I was there, you [John Pawlows] indicated you had a response to this letter. So, I’m taking it that you have a survey or something?

John Pawlows: I did not get a survey. I’m not going towards her at all. That was my only thing. I’m only going in the back.

Kathleen Ellerby: I know her concern is how you are going to get stuff back there without infringing on her. I spoke to her. Also, looking at this property, if you are going seven foot back, that’s going to put you approximately right against that hill. What are you going to do about drainage and runoff?

John Pawlows: Well, I’m going to have to put something in there.

Kathleen Ellerby: And, is that going to affect the neighbors?

John Pawlows: No, because there's a culvert that it runs into now, as you are facing up that spot you’re talking about, on the left there’s a big culvert and that’s where everything drains into. It goes in. So, that will not affect that at all.

Kathleen Ellerby: That’s all I have.

John Pawlows: The only thing I could say on her [Miriam H. Ackley] PS [post script]: That was in ’05 and the first I heard about it and if it did happen, the contractor was insured. I’m insured. But, I didn’t see that. This is the first I’ve heard about that.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin closed the public portion at 7:05 pm

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Questions, concerns?

Frank Malagisi: Would you be willing to provide a survey?

John Pawlows: If I have to, but I hate to throw that kind of money at [inaudible] if that’s my only choice.

Frank Malagisi: Surveys are great. It takes away a lot of fears that property owners and neighbors might have.

John Pawlows: Well, I think… She didn’t talk to me and I didn’t know about this until later and that’s going back to Rochester. My problem was… Can I bring you something?

John Pawlows presented tax roll printout.

John Pawlows: This is off the tax roll and it shows my property being a 60 [foot] by hundred [foot] and that’s where the problem was because I found out from John [Duesler, Code Enforcement Officer] and Linda [Gilbert, Town Clerk] that you go by this i-map [SDG Image Mate Online for Fulton County] for your property. I have 50 feet. That told me I had 60 [feet]. So,[inaudible] I’m only over seven feet now on the side. [inaudible] I thought I was over further. So, it’s not a problem and I will tell her that when I see her.

Frank Malagisi: You have property across the street also?

John Pawlows: Yes.

Frank Malagisi: Is that part of your hundred feet?

John Pawlows: Going back, is that what you mean?

Frank Malagisi: Going forward. You go across the street and then you have the lake?

John Pawlows: Yes.

Frank Malagisi: Is there a portion of your property over there?

John Pawlows: Yes.

Frank Malagisi: Is that part of the hundred feet?

John Pawlows: No. You mean does the hundred feet go from the lake back?

Frank Malagisi: Right.

John Pawlows: No.

Frank Malagisi: No. Well, I’m a little confused, because the parcel width is 60 [feet] by a hundred feet. That would include all the property that’s there.

John Pawlows: Well yes, by this yes, you’re right.

Kathleen Ellerby: I’d like to see [inaudible] revised. [inaudible]

[inaudible]

Frank Malagisi: That's one of my main concerns.

[inaudible]

Frank Malagisi: But it’s still way over. Anybody else have any concerns?

Douglas Purcell: I have a very serious concern and it goes to the issue of coverage of the property. We’ve already approved an area variance at 19 percent coverage which I stated my objection to at the time and that I was afraid were were setting a precedence that we were going to regret it later down the road. The coverage, even at the revised area that they gave us, takes the coverage up to 26.5 percent. In my mind, the actions of the Planning Board when they first drafted them and the public when they adopted the current zones is to prevent the kind of development that exists along Kasson Drive right now. I realize that the property is somewhat under duress in terms of where you can go, but still at 26.5 percent coverage, that’s just an awfully lot of high coverage amount. And, I would feel horrible asking him to go out and do a survey knowing that in my mind I am never going to approve this. I see no circumstances under which I can be convinced that 26.5 percent coverage is a good idea.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Now, the allowable coverage is 10 percent.

Douglas Purcell: The allowable [coverage] is 10 percent, so this is 16.5 percentage points over.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Over.

Douglas Purcell: I appreciate what he is trying to do because it is the same kind of thing I had to do when I moved up here. I was fortunate that I had enough property that I could do that kind of addition, although I wasn’t aware of the ten percent allowance and we were going to put a porch and a garage on. And, we basically had to get a permit to do everything except for the porch on the property, so we could get that part done and then I had to go to the Zoning Board of Appeals at the time to get the approval to put a porch on. Otherwise, I would have had just steps going off my house. But, I was able to keep it at something like 13 percent coverage at the time.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Anything else?

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: The Zoning Board of Appeals, in the granting of an area variance, shall grant the minimum variance that it shall deem necessary and adequate and at the same time preserve and protect the character of the neighborhood and health, safety, and welfare of the community. There are five criteria. The first is whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this variance.

Douglas Purcell: I’ve heard some indications that people feel that there might be some.

Kathleen Ellerby: I agree with that.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: You agree with that.

Board members said, “Yes.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Secondly, whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some other method feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance.

Board members said, “No.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Thirdly, whether the requested area variance is substantial.

All board members said, “Yes.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fourthly, whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.

Douglas Purcell: I think Kathy [Ellerby] has explained her concerns about that but seems like John [Pawlows] had addressed that with his response.

All board members said, “No”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fifthly, whether the alleged difficulty was self-created, which consideration shall be relevant to the decision of the board of appeals, but shall not necessarily preclude the granting of the area variance.

All board members said, “No.”

Douglas Purcell made a motion to deny the granting the variance application Z2018-05 on the grounds that it is a significant overage in coverage. Kathleen Ellerby seconded the motion.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: A yes vote denies the application. A no vote approves it.

Roll call vote:
Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes
Frank Malagisi: Yes
Kathleen Ellerby: Yes
Douglas Purcell: Yes
Peter Welker: Yes

The application has been denied.

Z2018-06 owner: David & Lisa Dolen of 1143 Sacandaga Road Scotia NY 12302 of the Property located at: 129 Seven Oaks Road Caroga Lake NY 12032 and identified as parcel # 83.13-2-3 for a variance to the Town of Caroga Zoning Ordinance which is in violation of Article 4 Section 4.050 and Article 7, Section 7.021 (2) the shore line setback is at issue.

Owner desires to: configure steps 6 foot × 5.6 foot and a 10 foot × 12 foot shed within the shoreline setback. The total variance being requested is 53 square feet.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Would you give us an overview of what you’d like to do?

David Dolen: During the winter, we decided that we wanted to reconfigure the deck — the existing deck — and the existing screened in room. I think I gave you a colored cartoon. The yellow area. I went to the Planning Board because I wasn’t getting any closer to my setbacks, either from the lake or from the side property lines. We were going to run the stairs off the side. The Planning Board approved that. So did the APA [Adirondack Park Agency]. In discussions with my wife and once we got up there in the spring we decided we would really like the stairs to go off the front towards the lake, which encroaches on the setback. I think the numbers are on there. I’m asking you to approve running the stairs off the front. The rest of the reconfiguration was approved by the planning board. And then, we’d like to add a shed over here. Unfortunately, its in the setback from the lake. My property is such that I’m struggling to find a spot to put the shed. In listening to the predecessor talk about coverage, I had discussed that with John [Duesler, Code Enforcement Officer] a while ago. I can’t remember the numbers. I just did some quick math. Our property is 13,500 square foot. Before the stairs and the shed, I think I’m currently at 1,120 square foot coverage, so I think under the 10 percent. You guys may have already done this. Instead of talking about that. Gee, where am I?

Douglas Purcell: Comes up as a surprise sometimes.

David Dolen: Yes. I was really hoping that number was below 1,350 [square feet]. So anyway, we’re asking for a variance for the stairs to come off the front so they’re not coming off the side. And were asking for a variance for the shed. The shed will be used for a lawn implements and lawn mower and that kind of stuff. We come up in the winter, so we’ll keep the snowblower in there.

The secretary reported that there was no correspondence on this application.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: I don’t think there’s anybody else that wants to speak to this.

Frank Malagisi: I had asked for a survey if he had one, to bring it with him, and he did. If anybody wants to look at. It shows a shed in the rear now.

The survey was presented to the board.

David Dolen: That was done by the previous owner. There’s a date on there. The shed up the hill: he took that down and the outhouse. The only structure there on my lot is the camp, currently.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin closed the public portion at 7:18 pm and entered the board’s portion.

Douglas Purcell: In looking at the property, it looks like there used to be something in front of the porch and there’s patio block or something that leads up and kind of stops short of where the existing demolished porch is.

David Dolen: That’s where the old stairs went up on.

Douglas Purcell: OK, so there used to, at some point in time, be stairs that lead to that porch.

David Dolen: I have photographs.

David Dolen presented a photo of the previous porch.

David Dolen: I’ll explain it and then you can pass it around. This was the camp before we started this spring. So, we have screened-in porch and a deck. So, what we wanted to do was to reconfigure the camp so the camp came out and into the screened porch and just reconfigure the deck and take the stairs off the side. So, you’re right, there was a path coming up to the stairs.

Douglas Purcell: And when the Planning Board did their review, the stairs were still essentially there?

David Dolen: Yes, we had not done any demolition.

Douglas Purcell: It was your idea at the time to put the stairs off to the side? It was not their action that told you to put the stairs to the side?

David Dolen: Correct. You have to recognize that we’re running the deck out a little farther. We’re not getting any farther than where the stairs were. So, rather than have the discussion with them [Planning Board] about, hey, I’m encroaching on the setback, the design showed the stairs coming off to the side. And then, when we got up there in the spring, as people generally do, we changed our mind, so we thought we’d come to you guys and see if we could…

Douglas Purcell: With regard to the shed, there's nowhere towards the rear of the camp that you could level a spot to put that in? Trust me, if you’re going to be putting a snowblower in there, to try and remove snow during the winter, you’re going to find that to be very awkward and cumbersome, because I’ll tell you, I did it for fifteen, sixteen years where I and to get the snowblower out of the shed behind the house. I was fortunate that I had a neighbor who plowed out enough of my driveway that I could get a car in and then go hiking through the snow.

David Dolen: We’ve thought through it. We’d still have to hike through the snow to get it no matter where it is. It would be a long ways down the hill. The problem on the road side of the camp is the elevation. And if I put it on a flatter spot, it takes up the second parking spot, by the time you get it away from both homes.

Douglas Purcell: I’m going to get you’ve probably got some sort of septic off to the back of that as well?

David Dolen: Actually, our septics are in the front currently.

Douglas Purcell: OK. It’s an old camp. I didn’t really look for it.

David Dolen: I'm positive it is in the front.

Frank Malagisi: The area where you want to put the shed in now, is that anywhere near your septic?

David Dolen: It’s on the other side of the lot and down a ways from it.

Douglas Purcell: So, it’s towards the Selmser side of the property?

David Dolen: The septic is right on Jim's [Selmser] line. Just about. A foot off or something like that.

Frank Malagisi: Your neighbor’s septic: is it going to be anywhere in the vicinity of your neighbor's septic?

David Dolen: He doesn't know where it is and I took a probe and I think his is in the front also. But, that’s just me shoving a probe down there trying to find it. If I did find it, it would be about 22 foot from it and then 10 foot — You can see on the map there. So, his would be up in the corner and I’m 22 foot from my house and 10 foot in. So, I’m a diagonal — I don’t what that is. I have to run around that.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: So, it’s going to be in this area someplace.

Douglas Purcell: Yes.

David Dolen: On here, when I probed him, I think the septic is right here, right in front of his steps. But, he’ll tell you he doesn’t know where it is. And, I could be wrong. I was just doing it with a probe.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: I think it’s right up here in this area.

Frank Malagisi: And the shed is over this way?

David Dolen: Yes.

Douglas Purcell: The shed is 9 feet from that.

David Dolen: And, 22 feet down from mine.

Frank Malagisi: What are we looking for in total square footages?

[inaudible]

Douglas Purcell: 33 [square] feet for the steps on top. 120 [square feet] for the shed. So, 153 [square feet] additional.

Frank Malagisi: That’s not a lot of square footage.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: So, he’s still under.

Douglas Purcell: Oh, yes, he’s under.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: The shed is more of a sticking point to me than the steps are. There’s no way you could put it where the old shed was?

David Dolen: There's always a way. We had parking for one car down there. We tried to open it up down there a bit so we could get [inaudible]. Obviously, there’s always is some kind of way. [inaudible]

Lisa Dolen: We put it where it was before, where the previous owner had started to put his. It is also going to block that passage. That, if we ever needed to do any kind of replacing of the septic, if somebody’s trying to get through there, we’d have a shed there.

David Dolen: We imagine a new septic system and a well. We’re trying to keep an eye on that.

Lisa Dolen: We can't get in on Jim's [Selmser] side. The only way we can get in is on the other side, which is our property. So, if we put a shed there, it would block the pathway.

Frank Malagisi: You’re not going to have any footings? It’s just going to be on the ground?

David Dolen: We’ve talked about both ways. The guy is coming to put in some of the screw peers, that you screw down in with a pipe. The guy that’s going to build the shed for me said we could use those, they’re not too expensive. Or, he says, I can set it on the rock. So, we really haven’t come down on that. I don’t know if that’s a sticking point, one way or the other for you. It is on sort of a slope there. I haven’t got done interfacing with the contractor on it, but his point was, it may work very well while the guy’s doing the addition work if he put some in for the shed.

Frank Malagisi: My concern at that point, not knowing where the septic was, if you were to go into the ground you could hit the existing septic.

David Dolen: I know where mine is.

Douglas Purcell: Does the shed need to be 10 [foot] by 12 [foot]?

David Dolen: No. The lawn mower is pretty long. That was the thinking with 10 by 12.

Douglas Purcell: Part of the issue, as Ken [Chairman Kenneth Coirin] has already pointed out, is the concern about the to proximity to the shoreline. As the Code Enforcer [John Duesler] indicated in his denial notice, the APA [Adirondack Park Agency] would allow up to 100 square foot within the setback.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: So, if it was 10 [foot] by 10 [foot]?

David Dolen: We could do 10 [foot] by 10 [foot]. I mean, if it is a hard and fast thing.

Frank Malagisi: I like that 10 [foot] by 10 [foot].

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Anything else?

Douglas Purcell: I have one other. Because it is hard for me to visualize, just with the steps, where will they end up being relative to the existing patio blocks that are in there? Do they end up coming about to the same spot?

David Dolen: No, I’m ad libbing. The existing steps, before we tore them down, were over those patio blocks. If you looked them, those patio blocks, some of them were triangular. Then, there’s some that start at the front. They [the steps] covered the triangular ones.

Douglas Purcell: So, they’re going to be approximately —

Kathleen Ellerby: — the same.

David Dolen: They’re going to be a little farther down. I think the front of the ones, the old ones, were 70 [foot from shoreline] and now they’re going to be 65.5 [foot] from the water. I can look that up, if you need that number.

Douglas Purcell: I’m just trying to get a rough idea in my head.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: The Zoning Board of Appeals, in the granting of an area variance, shall grant the minimum variance that it shall deem necessary and adequate and at the same time preserve and protect the character of the neighborhood and health, safety, and welfare of the community. There are five criteria. The first is whether an undesirable change will be produced in the character of the neighborhood or a detriment to nearby properties will be created by the granting of this variance.

Board members said, “No.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Secondly, whether the benefit sought by the applicant can be achieved by some other method feasible for the applicant to pursue, other than an area variance.

Board members said, “No.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Thirdly, whether the requested area variance is substantial.

All board members said, “No.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fourthly, whether the proposed variance will have an adverse effect or impact on the physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood or district.

All board members said, “No.”

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Fifthly, whether the alleged difficulty was self-created, which consideration shall be relevant to the decision of the board of appeals, but shall not necessarily preclude the granting of the area variance.

All board members said, “No.”

Douglas Purcell made a motion to approve variance application Z2018-06 the with stipulation that the shed not exceed 100 square feet in area. Kathleen Ellerby seconded the motion.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: A yes vote approves that application with that adjustment to it. A no vote denies it.

Roll call vote:
Frank Malagisi: Yes
Kathleen Ellerby: Yes
Chairman Kenneth Coirin: Yes
Douglas Purcell: Yes
Peter Welker: Yes

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: It has passed.

David Dolen: So, if I wanted to jog that a little bit, to keep it in line with trying to get a mower into it, make it a little narrower and a little longer?

Douglas Purcell: That’s why I made it 100 square feet.

Chairman Kenneth Coirin: This has to go to the APA [Adirondack Park Agency] and they have 30 days to make a decision and then it’ll come back. Then, the Code Enforcement Officer will let you know. Sometimes, I understand, they [the APA] are taking about 20 to 21 days.

Frank Malagisi made the motion to adjourn. Douglas Purcell seconded the motion. All were in favor.

The meeting adjourned at 7:32pm.

Respectfully submitted
James McMartin Long
Town of Caroga Deputy Supervisor,
acting as Zoning Board of Appeals Secretary

Copyright © James McMartin Long 2017–2024