Planning Board Meeting
March 9, 2020 Minutes

Chairman Kozakiewicz called the meeting to order at 7:00pm.

Roll call:

Al Kozakiewicz — present
Fred Franko — present
Kim Hart — present
Mike Voght — present
Matt Cooper — present
Lynne Delesky — present
Rick Gilmour — present

Attendees: Jeremy Hills of LeChase, Michael A. Roman of C2 Architecture, Sarah Mailloux of C2 Architecture, Mike Corey of LeChase, John Allen, general contractor for CLVFC, Robert Sullivan of CLVFC, Brian Macintosh of CLVFC, Ralph Palcovic of CLVFC, other members of CLVFC, and 10 approximately members of the public.

Al Kozakiewicz discussed his investigation into when a member should recuse himself or herself with Mike Voght.

Lynne Delesky moved to accept the March 4, 2020 minutes as published. The motion was seconded by Al Kozakiewicz. All were in favor.

Application Number: P2020-01

Caroga Lake Volunteer Fire Company (CLVFC)
1785 State Highway 10
Caroga Lake NY 12032, of the property located at 3237 State Highway 29A
in the Town of Caroga and identified as parcel SBL#83.-1-1 for a Site Plan Review and a Subdivision, as per the Town of Caroga Zoning Ordinance.

Review of application.

Al Kozakiewicz asked for a presentation of the proposal from CLVFC.

Michael Roman and Sarah Mailloux presented the architectural design.

Sarah Mailloux asked if the Planning Board had previously seen the renderings.

The Planning Board said no, it had not seen the renderings before.

Sarah Mailloux said C2 was proposing a roughly 10,000 square foot pre-engineered building to house the Fire Company. C2 was looking to give the building more of an Adirondack look to fit in with the surroundings. C2 is proposing a dark brownish-gray color metal panel that comes with the pre-engineered design. It would give the building a robust look, with the color scheme of an Adirondack feel. C2 is proposing Hardie siding on the bump-out areas with some cultured stone around the edge. C2 incorporated some wood elements on the canopies, to bring the wood feel and warmth.

Michael Roman said it was pre-engineered building.

Rick Gilmour asked what that meant.

Michael Roman replied that it was a steel structure. A lot of the fabrication will be done on-site. A lot of the technical materials will be handled out and brought to the site and erected. This is all being fabricated from a pre-engineered building. They are working with a company that would put this together at their factory and then shipped out to the site. There would be cultured stone along the base of the fire house. They would articulate some of the areas with wood timbers to soften some of the exterior. The lighting will be on the building: there are no external fixtures in the parking areas. Everything will be illuminated from the building. As one moves away from the building the foot-candles would be less and less as one gets to the outer perimeter of the parking. C2 brought samples of the exterior. The smooth metal panels are insulated. The cultured stone will be earth tones. The Hardie will be in two colors: a field color and an accent color.

The board and the discussed the samples.

Fred Franko asked about the metal panels.

Michael Roman said the metal panels were the majority of the fire house: one big box. Michael Roman pointed out the components that would have Hardie board: the side entry and the front area. Everything else is the metal panel.

Fred Franko said he did not see that on the drawings that had been submitted.

Michael Roman showed Fred Franko and the board where the two-inch rigid metal panel was and where the cultured stone was. All around the perimeter of the building is the cultured stone.

Rick Gilmour asked if the cultured stone went up about three feet.

Sarah Mailloux and Michael Roman both confirmed the cultured stone went up about three feet.

Fred Franko asked if they have cuts on exterior lighting.

Michael Roman said they had not brought those. Said they were LED lights and they could provide the board with further information.

Sarah Mailloux said they were slim profile.

Rick Gilmour asked Ralph Palcovic if that would be enough light.

Ralph Palcovic said there would be Workers Compensation issues if there was inadequate lighting.

Rick Gilmour asked if this lighting proposal would be enough.

Ralph Palcovic said he could not answer that question.

Michael Roman said it met the criteria and C2 could provide a lighting analysis.

Michael Roman said there was a plan to have pole lighting but that was removed from the scope of work, but the lighting around the building meets the criteria. He again offered to provide a lighting analysis.

Al Kozakiewicz said the Planning Board’s concern is light coming off the property to neighboring properties. It was the applicant’s responsibility to ensure the lighting was adequate.

Rick Gilmour asked if the Planning Board should not be asking about the adequacy of lighting.

Al Kozakiewicz said no, it was fine to ask.

Michael Roman said C2 was mindful of light pollution.

Rick Gilmour again said he was wondering if the lighting was enough.

Al Kozakiewicz asked if there was a call box on the building.

Ralph Palcovic said they had not discussed that, but that he would anticipate there would be some kind of alerting device.

Al Kozakiewicz asked if there would be a sign or blue light to call attention to it.

Ralph Palcovic said there could be a public alerting device like a retro-reflective fire alarm pole box. That is not part of this plan.

Fred Franko asked about any other signage.

Brian Macintosh said nothing presently, but a couple years down the line. There will be a power line out to the road that could be used for a future sign. At this time there’s only one across the top of the building.

Fred Franko asked if that would be back lit.

Brian Macintosh said it would be the current sign on the current fire house, refurbished.

Ralph Palcovic said it is understood that any sign would not be back-lit.

Rick Gilmour asked about the conduit line coming into the building.

Al Kozakiewicz concurred that this was one of the questions the Board had.

Jeremy Hills said they are still working with National Grid right now. There will likely be a pole required somewhere in that area and then underground into the building. They have to work though with National Grid exactly where the pole is going to go. There may not even be a new pole required.

Al Kozakiewicz asked which side of the road were the poles.

Mike Voght said the power runs on the same side as the proposed fire house.

Al Kozakiewicz said that meant it shouldn’t be a big deal.

Lynne Delesky asked about a timetable about when the project would start and finish.

The Clerk said a project schedule was recently submitted and was online.

Jeremy Hills said from the start date, it would be about 9 to 10 months.

Al Kozakiewicz returned to the lighting design and asked if the Board had the lumens depicted.

They said they could provide that to the Board.

Al Kozakiewicz said there were seven items where the Board thought they would need, but had not been provided.

Al Kozakiewicz read: Location, design, and construction materials of all energy distribution facilities including electrical, gas, and alternative energy. He said he thought the answer was that the applicant did not know yet because it would depend on what National Grid tells the applicant.

Al Kozakiewicz said if the rest of the Board has an issue with that, say so, but he though the Board understood there’s going to be a pole someplace — hopefully a preexisting pole — and there would be a conduit under the parking lot. The Board does not need a lot of detail.

Rick Gilmour agreed.

Mike Voght said where the horseshoe-shaped driveway is, there is a utility pole to the right. He believes the power will come off that pole.

Al Kozakiewicz continued with the list, reading: Location, size, design, and type of construction of all proposed signs. He asked for confirmation that, other than the sign on the front of the building, there is no application before the Board for any additional signs.

Ralph Palcovic said the base of a future sign is laid out on the print, but the sign isn’t part of the application.

Al Kozakiewicz continued reading: Type, location, hours of activities likely to generate noise or ground vibrations of a magnitude to be a public concern.

Rick Gilmour said it would be 24/7.

Al Kozakiewicz said, yes he knew. Al asked the Board whether it needed to be especially concerned about this?

The Board consensus was: no.

Al Kozakiewicz continued reading: Location, design of outdoor lighting facilities. He said the applicant owed the Board that.

Fred Franko asked about when the exterior lights would be on.

Brian Macintosh said they would be on when needed, off when done. There may be lights next to the doors where the keypads are.

Fred Franko said that was great.

Brian Macintosh said they may incorporate something that can activate them automatically.

Rick Gilmour suggested motion lights.

Brian Macintosh said there were a lot of animals around.

Rick Gilmour said that was true.

Brian Macintosh said it was still a possibility.

[Several conversations going on simultaneously.]

Fred Franko said some kind of wall lighting, on the doors, or under the canopy might be a good idea.

Michael Roman said these LED lights could be dimmed later at night.

Al Kozakiewicz said the last item was (number 25) record of applications for and approval status of all necessary permits from federal, state, and county officials. Normally the Board knows what that is for most applications that come before the Planning Board: NYSDOT for road cut — the applicant already has the road study, APA, and Fulton County. He asked does the applicant have a schedule of permits needed.

Brian Macintosh said they didn’t need any because they are a privately owned corporation, a 501(c)(3).

Ralph Palcovic mentioned Office of Fire Prevention and Control, Department of State, but added they don’t go into local jurisdictions like this.

Al Kozakiewicz says it sounds like the Planning Board has everything now. Since the Board last met, the applicant has sent the DOT letter.

The Clerk said he had not received that: they’d only submitted the engineering study but nothing back from NYSDOT.

Al Kozakiewicz said the NYSDOT letter is the only other one.

Jeremy Hills said they have not gotten a response back from NYSDOT.

Michael Roman said they are waiting for final approval.

The Board discussed parking requirements of the Zoning Ordinance.

The Clerk pointed the Board to Article 5, Section VI.

Mike Voght counted 26 sites on three sides, including handicap.

Al Kozakiewicz determined they only needed 31 and that parking was adequate.

Fred Franko said he was concerned that it was metal panels instead of cement on the main building. He said the drawing says Hardie board. He asked for an amended plan that reflects what they proposed in their oral presentation. He also noted that some specification sections were missing in what was submitted. He’d like to see that information for the record. Some of the drawings submitted need corrections.

It was agreed that new drawings would be submitted to the Board.

Fred Franko asked if the overhead doors had been changed.

Mike Corey said the overhead doors have been updated.

Fred Franko said he had sheet G101.

The applicant said there are drawings that supersede what the Board received: new drawings will be supplied.

Al Kozakiewicz said the applicant did not need to deliver hard-copies for this: that’s just a nuisance. He asked the applicant to send the Clerk PDFs and they will be put online so that the Board can refer to them.

Rick Gilmour ask who was general contractor.

Brian Macintosh said it was John Allen who will be serving as general contractor.

Jeremy Hills asked what else the Board needed. His list had the foot-candle analysis to be delivered to James Long [the Clerk].

Fred Franko said the cut sheet on the lights.

Jeremy Hills agreed, cut sheet on the lights.

Al Kozakiewicz asked what units would be used.

The answer was lumens.

Jeremy Hills said the only other item was a general update on the specifications.

Fred Franko clarified that what was needed was a complete set with all specifications, including the exterior.

Jeremy Hills asked if everything should be funneled through the James Long [the Clerk].

Al Kozakiewicz answered yes.

Lynne Delesky asked about the status of NYSDOT approval.

Al Kozakiewicz asked the applicant for clarification of the status of the NYSDOT.

The applicant said everything has been submitted: they are just waiting for final approval.

Al Kozakiewicz spoke about the remaining items to declare the application complete.

Fred Franko asked if the next meeting would be the first formal meeting before acceptance of a complete submission.

Al Kozakiewicz said yes, unless the Board agrees to waive some of the things the Board is requiring for a complete application, the clock doesn’t start ticking on the 62 days. The Board has noted some items it needs.

Rick Gilmour said that what is left is insignificant with regard to stopping the process. The things that are left can be dealt with at the Public Hearing.

The Clerk reminded the Board that the Board has a meeting scheduled for March 17.

Al Kozakiewicz asked when the Fulton County Planning Board deadline for submission is.

The Clerk responded that the deadline was tomorrow [March 10] and the Board should be able to get at least an oral response from the Fulton County Planning Board March 17 meeting before the Planning Board meeting on the evening of March 17.

Al Kozakiewicz said the Board could schedule the Public Hearing regardless. Before voting the Board would need to do the SEQRA process. The soonest the Board could vote would be a day or two after March 17 [when Fulton County Planning would have responded]. He said the Board could meet at the Fire House if needed.

Rick Gilmour said having it at the Fire House would be an intimidation.

Al Kozakiewicz discussed the delay in its receiving the NYSDOT letter and contrasted that with Bohler Engineering [Primax, Dollar General] having presented that letter at their first meeting.

Mike Voght asked if they are using part of the two existing curb cuts.

Jeremy Hills said they didn't know.

Fred Franko asked what happens if they didn't get their approvals from NYSDOT.

[At this point, there are several simultaneous conversations in the meeting.]

Al Kozakiewicz said he did not think it was worth the risk of proceeding without the NYSDOT letter.

Fred Franko asked about the nature of that risk.

Al Kozakiewicz responded with a hypothetical of starting the 62-day clock and NYSDOT issues a negative letter 90 days out, after the Town has issued building permits.

Mike Voght said the way the drawing shows the curb cuts, it looks to him like the applicant is using the upper curb cut. The only thing is that they are extending the top curb cut.

Fred Franko said he'd like to get the clock started.

Mike Voght said he would too.

Fred Franko said the risk would be on the applicant that if something goes south, then the Board would have to start again.

Al Kozakiewicz said he would not bring it up for a vote unless the Board had all the requirements for the application. If this drags on, the Board would have a vote to not approve the Site Plan.

Fred Franko said, regarding timely submission of outstanding application materials, he'd like to propose “we're going to trust you on that”. If the applicant doesn’t come through, then it would be an issue.

Al Kozakiewicz asked Linda Gilbert if she had something she wanted to say.

Linda Gilbert said she’d worked with NYSDOT on other projects and she would find out who the contact person is.

Al Kozakiewicz said here's what we're betting on: Sometime between now and four weeks from today, the applicant would have delivered the missing material to the Board so that the Board can vote.

Jeremy Hills said he’d expect to have the various documents, excluding the NYSDOT letter, to James Long [Clerk] by the end of the week or beginning of next week.

Al Kozakiewicz confirmed that March 17 was the Kane Site Plan Review.

Fred Franko asked if March 17 was a possible date to continue with this application.

Al Kozakiewicz said the Board would only have received the additional materials March 17, the day before the schedule March 17 Public Hearing on the Kane application.

Al Kozakiewicz asked the Board and the applicant if March 25 would work for the next meeting. He said that if it went like the Primax application, they could do the SEQRA process and Site Plan Review the same night.

Jeremy Hills asked about the sequence of events going forward.

Al Kozakiewicz said it would take a day or two at the most after an affirmative vote from the Board on March 25, the applicant to go to Code Enforcement Officer John Duesler on March 30, which is the next time John Duesler is scheduled to be in his office.

Al Kozakiewicz moved to schedule the Public Hearing for P2020-01 Caroga Lake Volunteer Fire Company for the construction of the new Fire House on March 25 at 7 pm.

Lynne Delesky seconded the motion.

All Board members were in favor.

Al Kozakiewicz said the motion carried.

Rick Gilmour moved to adjourn.

Fred Franko seconded the motion.

All were in favor.

The meeting adjourned at 7:53pm.

James McMartin Long,
Planning Clerk/Secretary
Town Board Member
PO Box 328
Caroga Lake NY 12032
(518)835-3734 (home)
James@JamesLong.com

Copyright © James McMartin Long 2017–2024